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Post by eBob on Apr 15, 2007 10:27:10 GMT -5
Please leave any feedback or comments concerning the rules here
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Post by hithero on Apr 18, 2007 16:52:11 GMT -5
Please leave any feedback or comments concerning the rules here OK, will do, with my playtester/proofreader head on 1- Movement is confusing due to there being various terms used for the same thing, for example Advance/Standard and Charge/ double speed and so needs tidying up a bit, I had to read several times flicking between the pages to make sure I understood it. 2- If a model is 'trapped' then an additional wound is caused; as models appear to only have one wound, does this mean he automatically dies? After thinking this not right, I assumed that you should actually roll on the melee chart instead (but the rules do not say this), but what if the winning combatants have a different skill level/weapons? 3- Fall Back, would a model really gain a combat advantage for falling back? 4- Can models move if they are outside a leaders command range, what happens, I can't see a rule covering this. 5- The Brigand wears Leather Armour but can also purchase it for 2pts, should his profile be AC0 or Leather 0pts or other? 6- The points seem to be off when comparing Brigands and English Infantry. If you arm both with a shield, the brigands is free yet the English pay 2pts. This means that the Brigand is cheaper, they both need the same score to wound each other yet the Brigand has higher Courage and Skill. 7- Also the Brigand two-handed weapon costs 2 pts and the English axe 1pt, I don't know why they should have different dice to wound and would have thought them to have the same effect. Even then when fighting each other and rolling different dice, they both have a 50% chance of wounding so don't know why they need to be different. 8- So we have the Highlander sword costing twice that of an English axe, but when in the hands of heroes this is reversed but costs a lot more (15pts-5pts) in the Hands of Wallace yet is no more effective. There seems to be a lot of irregularities or typo's in the weapons. 9- What does Stamina do? The rules do look quite interesting, fun and playable and might give them a try sometime - maybe at salute? At first glance I was concerned about using different polydice for a skirmish game, but as the majority of time only d6 will be rolled so this is fine. Hope that helps, Dave
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Post by eBob on Apr 18, 2007 18:08:30 GMT -5
1. ok - I'll look at that.
2. If trapped he gets an automatic wound. If he only has one - he is killed.
3. Yes, because it is a controlled move - basically they are shielding but withdrawing slowly - they are not turning and moving away with their backs to the enemy.
4. If models are out of command range - but pass courage? good point... yes he should move toward the nearest command but I'll examine that.
5. yep - that seems to be a mistake - armour should be purchased.
6. The brigand in not cheaper because the English come with chainmail.
7. the Claymore sword is not similar to an axe - is a much superior weapon. I'll look at the rolls, you might be correct that they are effectively the same - I need to check that, the claymore should be the stronger weapon.
8. I'll check this.
9. Stamina is wounds - but rather than record how many wounds someone has which sounds daft to me, because they dont have wounds until they are wounded.. I record stamina instead.
Only the heros use poly dice - it helps them beat multiple opponents.
Lots of help Dave thanks - would like to discuss this with you at salute. It's hard to see problems when you know what it's supposed to say because you wrote it - and I'm not such rule-buff as yourself, so all input welcome hence why this beta is out there.
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Post by hithero on Apr 19, 2007 1:27:27 GMT -5
6- Cool, as 5 effects question 6. 7- Now that the Brigands do not neccessarily have armour, this may now effect the balance of the two weapons. 9- I don't think Stamina is the right word to use as this implies endurance in running etc, at first I thought it effected how many moves a model could charge for. Maybe resilience, toughness or resistance? There are Wounds and wounds, which indicates how many Wounds a model has and how many wounds it causes and is a pretty normal term in games so is unlikely to cause concern or confusion. I know exactly what you mean about writing rules, I'm the same, you know what you mean so why doesn't everybody else? I've found that the best way to playtest is to write the rules and then give them to a mate to play and run the game with no input from yourself, if he has to ask you questions then make a note and add it to the rules. Catch you later, Dave
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Post by idontknow on Apr 24, 2007 7:05:37 GMT -5
I find the Part were "charge" is explained confusing, but after having read it thoroughly I think I get it now. You declare a charge on a unit in the distance wich you cant reach in the turn you declare the charge. Am I right?
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Post by eBob on Apr 24, 2007 11:03:52 GMT -5
yes. You don't have to be able to reach the enemy in the turn you declare charge - but you must be able to reach them within 3 moves (at charge speed)
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Post by blackfly on Apr 28, 2007 14:24:54 GMT -5
Ebob- You already saw this over at FUUK, but I thought I'd post it here so you can have it all in one place: Thanks for clarifying the stamina = wounds. As I posted below, I think that section could use a little more clarity. On the first page it says wounds (stamina) under the heading Record Sheet - but you're not the first person to say they didn't know Stamina was wounds - so that needs clarification.Perhaps a high level outline format, i.e. You Roll to Attack The winner counts as having succesfully struck blows When blows are struck, you roll to cause wounds against the Melee chart If the target number is exceeded, a wound is caused. If the target has only one point of stamina, the wound removes him from the game. YesOtherwise one point if stamina is deducted from the profile per wound caused. correctThen proceed to explain the steps in detail with references to modifiers, dice, skill, weapons, etc for each step. For me at least it helps to know the frame work within which all the detailed rules work while I'm reading them. Hope that helps, at least a little. Cheers, -Nathan -------------------------Repost regarding combat confusion on my part:------------------ I just read over your rules a couple times and I have a question- I might be being thick, or maybe because it's the lite rules, it isn't fully fleshed out. . . How does combat really work? 1.you roll a die, determined by your skill, against your opponent's die, determined by his skill. The highest dice roll wins the combat. 2. Striking blows- so, the winner of the combat roll above takes a dice determined by his weapon type, and rolls on the Melee chart. Correct? Doesn't matter by how much or anything, If you roll higher, you get one roll (per defender) on the chart, ja? 3. Melee chart. The resulting roll must equal or exceed the target number from the chart, and this is where I think you could clarify things. It doesn't say that you kill him . . . do you? In the Winning a Fight section it says that once wounds have been resolved (okay, is he wounded? or dead?) the losing model must back off. So. . . does that mean you lost the combat roll, but your opponent failed on the melee chart, then you back off? If you succeed on the melee chart is the opponent dead? I don't see any Wounds stats to suggest that people can take more than one. Though maybe stamina is involved? It isn't mentioned beyond a brief line in the charachteristics section. . . Anyway, this didn't seem exceedingly clear to me. Though I'd wager my hunches are right, I thought it might be common among other first time readers/players, and you might want to clearify that a little in the full/subsequent versions. ----------------------------------------------------------------
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Post by lyzi00 on Apr 29, 2007 17:29:02 GMT -5
Is Melee moving into combat without charging? That kind of confused me. Also when can we expect rules for archery and cavalry?
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Post by eBob on Apr 30, 2007 4:48:11 GMT -5
Yes - Melee means hand to hand fighting. Rules for cavalry and archery being drafted.
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Post by lyzi00 on Apr 30, 2007 18:23:09 GMT -5
I know what melle is I was just wondering why its a type of movement
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Post by eBob on May 16, 2007 3:27:42 GMT -5
The following was posted by sirhc Answers posed in Green.
I am going to list all the typos and things I don't like about the rules here: (I have filled out the survey as well)
including d8, d10, and 12 sided dice.-take out the d's Yes, ok I think you're right. Change made
recording Skill scores, Luck and Stamina (wounds) remaining.-shouldn't skill be tactical points Yes indeed - thanks, I'll change that. change made
d6(+1) it means that the weapon can be used both a single handed weapon or as two handed weapon gaining +1 on the dice throw.-unclear which dice throw agree - that's not clear, but it's the damage roll when rolling on the melee chart. Reworded.
In addition, each army may have the appropriate national banner bearer at no cost,-does this mean they get an extra banner? Yes. Both armies get the national flag bearer free. All your named heros have a banner anyway - but if a banner is killed your flag bearer can be used as he's not specific to any particular hero. I think is clear enough but I reworded it slightly.
The turns section should be first I think Do you mean bring it forward perhaps before the Movement section? Decided to leave as is.
if the Leadership scores are the same then the player chooses priority.-you mean initiative Priority in this instance means which goes first - which model has priority over the other. I think that makes sense. I think this is clear - you're only confusing priority with the use of the word priority in the LOTR rules - and that's not my fault.
Each player takes one d6 for each Commander he has on the battle field.-you can add ones for minor heroes with a tactical point correct? Correct. You have a maximum of 3 free initiative dice as you are only allow 3 commanders. You get an additional free one if you have a King in your army. Other heroes and captains must purchase a dice using a Tactical point. Bearing in mind that named heroes get a free tactical point if they are in base contact with their personal banner. You have actually understood the rule - so I don't think a text change is needed.
This means that an infantry unit requires 30+ models to charge or counter charge a unit of 10 heavy cavalry.- I thought it said you had to outnumber at least 2-1 and heavy cavalry counts as 3 so shouldn't it be 60? I'll look at that.. maths not my strong point - I think it needs to say 1-1. I got in a pickle here didn't I! Just needed to leave it that infantry need twice the number of models. Rule Changed.
Fall back should be a response to charge correct? No, fall back is not a charge response. It's a retreating move used to get out of range of something. If you start retreating when you're being charged your men will loose courage. The response when charged is Hold - but remember you can still move 1" when on hold - and this could be backwards. No change.
In the following turn, all models must move at least the maximum Advance movement rate before stopping....Note that Charge bonuses will not apply as the Advance move has not been exceeded.-these contradict each other. The word 'least' isn't needed here. They must move maximum advance speed. reworded
rolling a d10 and comparing with the hero's Leadership score as described in the 'Halt' rule.-then what happens, if passed do all warriors stay on field? Let me read that again.. You roll to rally each model in turn.
an English Longsword uses a d6(+1).-so it gains nothing unless used 2 handed? No. but it can be used two handed which a normal sword cannot. d6+1 is probably better than a d8 in all honesty.
combat is resolved as normal except that if shielding models do not strike blows.-add "win, they" afther shielding models - I think a comma is missing after the word shielding. Changed.
If other friendly models are in the way of the shot, the archer may not fire. Archers may fire into combats provided they can see the enemy model.-what if both are true? He either has a clear shot or he does not. no change
with the centre of the ruler where the marker or target is.-then how does the spread work? the arrows pass through each inch mark on the ruler - 1 to 6.
The 8 sided dice is pointed at each end and the dice naturally points the direction of the deviation.-show a picture. ok.
Any friendly model in base contact with the King fights as if a veteran soldier, rerolling any 1’s rolled to win a fight.-this rule wasn't elsewhere I don't think It's on the last page. What's missing is a title because it looks like part of the courage rule. Veteran rule brought forward.
However the King still needs to be in contact with his own banner to gain the free Tactical point and to increase his range to 8" when on foot.- you may want the whole King section after banners. I'll look at that. Moved.
they are permitted to move out of the command zone of the superior Commander thus splitting the unit and gaining an Initiative dice of their own in the next turn.-even if they aren't a commander? Any hero or captain can split off an lead an independent unit. Only commanders automatically get an initiative dice. I think this is clear when you read it - so no change. Veteran Soldiers-this section is placed badly-place it earlyer.
Can a model use a 2 handed weapon if it has a shield?-pics show wallace and morray doing so Nope. The images show them with shield stowed on their back. The shield is not in use - but can be if the revert to a single handed weapon.
I don't think stephen of ireland, grey or kerly should have banners. Good - no, they should not. Profile changed to say 'no banner'.
Two-handed sword 3pts d8(+1)-does this mean it can be used 1 handed? No - it's a mistake. should be (d8+1)
Sorry this is a lot, just trying to help and clarify. They look great, can't wait to play test them. (orcs v. minas tirith will work till I get your awesome minis)
No problem - all the points you raised are excellent and valid. Thank you for your input and I think I'll have to produce a new version with this changes pronto. But this is precisely why I released the pdf before the print version.
thanks again.
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Sirhc
Banner Bearer
Posts: 117
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Post by Sirhc on May 16, 2007 4:48:54 GMT -5
Do you mean bring it forward perhaps before the Movement section?
Yes
Sorry I posted in the wrong place, thanks for taking the time to read and respond to all of it.
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Sirhc
Banner Bearer
Posts: 117
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Post by Sirhc on May 16, 2007 5:07:10 GMT -5
Sorry for the double post, but I have some more questions:
You said "The shield is not in use - but can be if the revert to a single handed weapon." When can they switch?
Wallace's 2 handes sword is only d8 (no +1)-same with stephen, curly, and grey (maybe others
if leader (like scotish captain has chainmail, does the whole company need to slow down to stay in his slower range?
What are movement values for unarmoured, padded, and plate?
The melee chart has only wallace with SC 6-others have it too
Thats it for now!-thanks for the great miniatures and rules.
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cadian
Banner Bearer
Posts: 104
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Post by cadian on May 16, 2007 8:10:38 GMT -5
in the rules i cant find the rules of Andrew Moray the only one who comes closs is thomas randolph 1st earl of moray
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Post by Ebob on May 16, 2007 11:59:59 GMT -5
I can add Moray - he will have poor luck though unfortunately as he was killed by a stray arrow at Stirling.
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